the Black Lives Matter thread

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the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by William » 04 Jul 2020, 15:54

I am creating this thread for all discussions related to the BLM movement so you have a place to collect all your thoughts and feelings.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by seanchelsey » 04 Jul 2020, 19:05

Politically correct statement as follows: Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter from a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by Pegerino » 05 Jul 2020, 01:55

Took me a bit to understand the movement but had a black friend who was refused treatment for a broken wrist in November by doctors, that and the police brutality stuff that hit the news had me understand and look more into the other ways they are fucked over by the system.
So I am in full support of the movement and the protestors

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 05 Jul 2020, 03:30

Pegerino wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 01:55
Took me a bit to understand the movement but had a black friend who was refused treatment for a broken wrist in November by doctors, that and the police brutality stuff that hit the news had me understand and look more into the other ways they are fucked over by the system.
So I am in full support of the movement and the protestors
I have friends on law enforcement side and BLM side and even those on LES admit there is a problem.
I think a decent number of cases are overblown, but lots at same time are tossed under the rug.
Stop and frisk in NYC was beyond fucked up.
I live in a diverse city with diverse friends and do my best to understand how each views the world witthout judging them and when Ive been with friends of color I can see how they are treated differently.
No easy answers on how to fix it.

I think a good solution would be to require cops to do 4 years of school and learn a lot more about mental health and how to de-esculate situations. Use a special segment of cops for maybe traffic stops or other things where cops with guns arent needed. Cut way back on OT the amount of OT that cops get is insane and a huge cost to taxpayers. This can be accomplished by hiring more and also hiring "lower tier" cops who do accident reports. Maybe require cops to have a desk job taking reports from people to build people skills for a year, then go do traffic accident reports, then move up to be a normal cop. IDK no right or wrong answers but our police budget is out of control, same with military. It doesn't mean don't fund the military or cops it just means spend the money wiser and allocate left over money to things that would help cops with their job such as working with inner city kids to give them something to do, invest in mental health facilities, help with homeless, etc... all those things have a direct affect on cops. For example that inner city kid who may have been a gang banger may now get a better education and go to college, that bipolar guy holding a gun wanting to be shot may now have been able to get help, the homeless guy who lost his job due to addiction can go get help and return to being a productive member of society. I think the term "defund the police" is a strong term and scares the shit out of people but even cops I know support parts of the theory.

When you have to spend 1.5-2x the hours to get a barber license in this country as you do to become a cop and have a gun, thats fucked up.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by marcus » 05 Jul 2020, 06:05

I have black friends who have been victims of police brutality. I will forever be in support of BLM.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by fastmandan88 » 05 Jul 2020, 06:45

Count me out if they don't believe in two parents (gay or straight is fine with me) taking care of their own children:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.
Also the "donation" button for BLM goes to ActBlue which is a DEMOCRAT fundraising website. In 2020 the top two donations that ActBlue was the middleman for have been Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. Go ask BLM supporters themselves and they are scratching their heads about where exactly all that money small donors and corporate donors are going to. They have no fricking clue where that money goes. I got the answer: Joe Biden and the DNC.

Those Democrat-owned "factcheckers" you will see on Google are full of shit, btw. The DNC itself isn't officially involved in handling the money but ActBlue is like a SuperPAC which is kind of a middleman that handles funds behind-the-scenes.

BLM (UK branch) is blatantly anti-Semitic and even normies over there are bailing on BLM UK.

https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/artic ... itic-tweet

Police brutality is an issue. But it doesn't mean BLM is the only way to solve it. Especially if they want us to trust the same Democrats that gave us the Biden Crime Bill of 1994 which heavily expanded the construction of prisons and sent many more African Americans to prisons for minor drug crimes and other minor crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_C ... cement_Act

Senator Joe Biden drafted the Senate version of the legislation in cooperation with National Association of Police Officers president Joe Scotto. According to the Washington Post, Biden later described their involvement: “You guys sat at that conference table of mine for a six-month period, and you wrote the bill.”

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 05 Jul 2020, 15:57

Everyone's life matters. That includes Blacks killed by other Blacks.
In my opinion, the killing of George Floyd was completely unjustified, and those officers should be prosecuted for murder.
Sadly, there have been several other officers, who were innocent of any such behavior, but who have been ambushed and murdered themselves...for nothing other than wearing their uniform and doing their job.
There are some bad police officers, but the percentage of bad is TINY compared to officers who are committed to doing the right thing....for all people, regardless of race. I would submit that there are more evil clergymen than evil officers.
Bottom line... it is an occupation in which you could lose your life at any given moment, and most likely you are working a second, or third, job to make ends meet. It is NOT a job that you take for the salary. You see things that ordinary citizens (thankfully) never have to see, and you are forced to make decisions in seconds that attorneys get hours or weeks to make.

All of that being said, where is the outrage for the weekly war zone that is Chicago, where innocent Black children are killed by stray gunfire from
Blacks shooting at other Blacks?
While working the Major Felony Unit (Homicide/Robbery) at my agency for all totaled 9 years, this was the type of cases in which we pulled out all the stops. Detectives, supervisors and uniform officers worked around the clock in an attempt to solve the crime. We were NEVER pressured to make an “arrest”. We worked our ass off to solve the crime and bring the true perp to justice. These crimes are a Big deal to us and we took the responsibility to solve them seriously.
To whomever reads this, Millions of Americans watch the Chicago weekly body count continue to unfold. The millions of viewers see no public outrage. Did the media just not film it? Where is the outrage? Marches, folks with signs, citizens throwing bottles, etc. Where are the unelected “Leaders” who fly in for the event/tragedy?
It only occurs when a cop ends up taking the life of a person who was engaging in High Risk behavior and facing and/or resisting arrest. Millions of American news viewers see the sad double standard.
Rest assured, you will see far fewer of these arrests that result in deaths. I fear, and citizen/victims will see, far less aggressive and passionate crime solving occur. The American Police Officer is no longer going to risk his livelihood and freedom. They can show up at the horrific scene and ask if anyone saw anything, collect evidence and go home. Y'all want “Officer Friendly”, you got em....be careful what you ask for.
Additionally, many officers are leaving large metro jurisdictions because of the lack of support from local politicians. I find it to be pretty damn hypocritical for "leaders" of metro cities to ask for defunding, or elimination, of police departments and then seek to hire private(armed) security for their own protection.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 05 Jul 2020, 17:58

^To a certain degree, look at police annual budget and you will see how much OT pay is included. I know cops make 100k+ just due to OT. Dated a top attorney and theyd arrest people on BS chargees 30 minutes before shifts end so they can sit at their desk for hours writing up BS paperwork and get OT.

Police budgets are insane in this country in big part due to lobbyists. The budgets should be cut.

I think most would agree
Cut budget and wasteful spending
Train officers better (4 year required)
Dont pay high priced cops to do stupid tasks you can pay someone else to do
Get rid of the dont tell on your fellow officer rule, if someone breaks a rule and his partner dont report it, both are guilty for same thing or one is guilty and other is fired

One of the bigger problems is cops dont tell on other cops.
I love cops, friends with plenty but even they know shit aint right right now.
In MPLS the cop that was in the cop car just driving down the street spraying protestors (before anyone says anything they were on side or road holding signs doing nothing). Now city is sued due to that dumbass, he should immediately be fired, he isn't doing good, just costing tax payers money on a power trip.

LOTS of great cops, love 99% of them but even the good ones need to start weeding out the bad ones or it aint getting any better.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 05 Jul 2020, 17:59

fastmandan88 wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 06:45
Count me out if they don't believe in two parents (gay or straight is fine with me) taking care of their own children:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.
Also the "donation" button for BLM goes to ActBlue which is a DEMOCRAT fundraising website. In 2020 the top two donations that ActBlue was the middleman for have been Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. Go ask BLM supporters themselves and they are scratching their heads about where exactly all that money small donors and corporate donors are going to. They have no fricking clue where that money goes. I got the answer: Joe Biden and the DNC.

Those Democrat-owned "factcheckers" you will see on Google are full of shit, btw. The DNC itself isn't officially involved in handling the money but ActBlue is like a SuperPAC which is kind of a middleman that handles funds behind-the-scenes.

BLM (UK branch) is blatantly anti-Semitic and even normies over there are bailing on BLM UK.

https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/artic ... itic-tweet

Police brutality is an issue. But it doesn't mean BLM is the only way to solve it. Especially if they want us to trust the same Democrats that gave us the Biden Crime Bill of 1994 which heavily expanded the construction of prisons and sent many more African Americans to prisons for minor drug crimes and other minor crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_C ... cement_Act

Senator Joe Biden drafted the Senate version of the legislation in cooperation with National Association of Police Officers president Joe Scotto. According to the Washington Post, Biden later described their involvement: “You guys sat at that conference table of mine for a six-month period, and you wrote the bill.”
Can I ask how old you are and what city you grew up in?
Also, were you raised by military family?
How many countries have you been to not related to military.
Whats your opinion on the alt right?

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 05 Jul 2020, 19:57

kensrs wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 17:58
^To a certain degree, look at police annual budget and you will see how much OT pay is included. I know cops make 100k+ just due to OT. Dated a top attorney and theyd arrest people on BS chargees 30 minutes before shifts end so they can sit at their desk for hours writing up BS paperwork and get OT.

Police budgets are insane in this country in big part due to lobbyists. The budgets should be cut.

I think most would agree
Cut budget and wasteful spending
Train officers better (4 year required)
Dont pay high priced cops to do stupid tasks you can pay someone else to do
Get rid of the dont tell on your fellow officer rule, if someone breaks a rule and his partner dont report it, both are guilty for same thing or one is guilty and other is fired

One of the bigger problems is cops dont tell on other cops.
I love cops, friends with plenty but even they know shit aint right right now.
In MPLS the cop that was in the cop car just driving down the street spraying protestors (before anyone says anything they were on side or road holding signs doing nothing). Now city is sued due to that dumbass, he should immediately be fired, he isn't doing good, just costing tax payers money on a power trip.

LOTS of great cops, love 99% of them but even the good ones need to start weeding out the bad ones or it aint getting any better.
I stand by my earlier statement. 100%.
Sorry man....100K due to OT? You just lost me there. :roll: Ain't happening at any agency I'm aware of! Even Captains with 20 + years service aren't in that pay grade.
Yes, LOTS of great cops. 99%+ actually are great cops. The majority are also ex Military who didn't pursue that particular career for the salary either.

Again......where is the outrage over the FAR GREATER number of Back on Black homicide victims? I suppose either A) Those lives don't matter, or B) It doesn't fit a particular agenda to bring them up. Nevertheless, the numbers don't lie. An African American individual has a HELL of a lot more to fear, as far as being murdered, from another African American individual than by ANY police officer, whether the officer be White, Black, Asian, Latino.
George Floyd was murdered. Rayshard Brooks was passed out drunk in the drive-thru at a Wendys and impeding traffic. Those police officers didn't just show up for a burger and decide to shoot him...they were called and were attempting to do their jobs, including being cordial and polite to Mr Brooks, right up until he realized that he was going to be arrested and would be in violation of his parole (Child Endangerment). At that time, he starting fighting, overpowered one officer , took his Taser and fired it at him. That officer was struck and fell, suffering a concussion. Brooks then ran... but turned and fired again before he was fatally shot. The District Attorney had stated two weeks previously that a Taser is a deadly weapon...but that was when an officer deployed one while a couple in an auto were fighting and attempting to drag another officer during a riot.
When Officer Garrett Rolfe shot Mr Brooks, the same DA evidently forgot his earlier comments and charged the officer with murder, despite the fact that Mr Brooks fired twice with a "deadly weapon" striking one officer and causing injury, and before an investigation had been completed by the GBI.
Of course Black Lives Matter! One of those Black Lives helped me put away some shrimp and crab legs, along with frosty beverages and Jim Beam at my house last night. Until people start teaching their children that ALL LIVES MATTER and the Police are NOT your enemy things will stay as Effed Up as ever. My .02

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 05 Jul 2020, 22:12

https://www.facebook.com/je.wesley.3/videos/3175280249201056/

Atlanta PD having lasers directly pointed into their eyes and fireworks shot at them.
These are NOT "protesters". They are criminals. Change my mind.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 06 Jul 2020, 00:25

artibus wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 19:57
kensrs wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 17:58
^To a certain degree, look at police annual budget and you will see how much OT pay is included. I know cops make 100k+ just due to OT. Dated a top attorney and theyd arrest people on BS chargees 30 minutes before shifts end so they can sit at their desk for hours writing up BS paperwork and get OT.

Police budgets are insane in this country in big part due to lobbyists. The budgets should be cut.

I think most would agree
Cut budget and wasteful spending
Train officers better (4 year required)
Dont pay high priced cops to do stupid tasks you can pay someone else to do
Get rid of the dont tell on your fellow officer rule, if someone breaks a rule and his partner dont report it, both are guilty for same thing or one is guilty and other is fired

One of the bigger problems is cops dont tell on other cops.
I love cops, friends with plenty but even they know shit aint right right now.
In MPLS the cop that was in the cop car just driving down the street spraying protestors (before anyone says anything they were on side or road holding signs doing nothing). Now city is sued due to that dumbass, he should immediately be fired, he isn't doing good, just costing tax payers money on a power trip.

LOTS of great cops, love 99% of them but even the good ones need to start weeding out the bad ones or it aint getting any better.
I stand by my earlier statement. 100%.
Sorry man....100K due to OT? You just lost me there. :roll: Ain't happening at any agency I'm aware of! Even Captains with 20 + years service aren't in that pay grade.
Yes, LOTS of great cops. 99%+ actually are great cops. The majority are also ex Military who didn't pursue that particular career for the salary either.

Again......where is the outrage over the FAR GREATER number of Back on Black homicide victims? I suppose either A) Those lives don't matter, or B) It doesn't fit a particular agenda to bring them up. Nevertheless, the numbers don't lie. An African American individual has a HELL of a lot more to fear, as far as being murdered, from another African American individual than by ANY police officer, whether the officer be White, Black, Asian, Latino.
George Floyd was murdered. Rayshard Brooks was passed out drunk in the drive-thru at a Wendys and impeding traffic. Those police officers didn't just show up for a burger and decide to shoot him...they were called and were attempting to do their jobs, including being cordial and polite to Mr Brooks, right up until he realized that he was going to be arrested and would be in violation of his parole (Child Endangerment). At that time, he starting fighting, overpowered one officer , took his Taser and fired it at him. That officer was struck and fell, suffering a concussion. Brooks then ran... but turned and fired again before he was fatally shot. The District Attorney had stated two weeks previously that a Taser is a deadly weapon...but that was when an officer deployed one while a couple in an auto were fighting and attempting to drag another officer during a riot.
When Officer Garrett Rolfe shot Mr Brooks, the same DA evidently forgot his earlier comments and charged the officer with murder, despite the fact that Mr Brooks fired twice with a "deadly weapon" striking one officer and causing injury, and before an investigation had been completed by the GBI.
Of course Black Lives Matter! One of those Black Lives helped me put away some shrimp and crab legs, along with frosty beverages and Jim Beam at my house last night. Until people start teaching their children that ALL LIVES MATTER and the Police are NOT your enemy things will stay as Effed Up as ever. My .02
Nothing but love from me to you but you are way off base
Maybe in your neck of woods but I know PLENTY of cops that make WAY OVER 100K, not including pension, and all the other BS.
Simple google search

https://www.npri.org/press/las-vegas-me ... -benefits/

OT pay is a HUGE pay raise. I am EXTREMELY close with multiple VERY POWERFUL attorneys and the amount of cops that write out bullshit tickets 30 minutes before a shift ends, knowing the charge wont hold is crazy. Why do they do this, OVERTIME, they sit at desk and get paid to do nonsense!!!

Also, Rayshard Brooks was shot in the back, sorry but by law that cop is FUCKED!!! Cant say a taser is a deadly weapon when a civilian uses it but not when a cop uses it, can't have it both ways.

Also, I know PLENTY of cops who off the record talk about corruption in the force and cops dont say shit about it because they don't want to be the one to piss off fellow officers. I agree majority of cops are amaing people, nothing but love, I buy them dinner all the time when they are behind me in line at drive thrus, its not that I dont like cops, I am just a realist who deals with court system and sees just how f'd up it is.

Can I ask what major metro area you live in and how far from said city are you. For example suburbs and 2 hours from a major city might have a different POV than someone living in the Bronx. Just asking so I can see if that is reason of different POV and I'll research your cops pay scale, it may shock you.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by fastmandan88 » 06 Jul 2020, 01:03

artibus wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 15:57
Everyone's life matters. That includes Blacks killed by other Blacks.
In my opinion, the killing of George Floyd was completely unjustified, and those officers should be prosecuted for murder.
Sadly, there have been several other officers, who were innocent of any such behavior, but who have been ambushed and murdered themselves...for nothing other than wearing their uniform and doing their job.
There are some bad police officers, but the percentage of bad is TINY compared to officers who are committed to doing the right thing....for all people, regardless of race. I would submit that there are more evil clergymen than evil officers.
Bottom line... it is an occupation in which you could lose your life at any given moment, and most likely you are working a second, or third, job to make ends meet. It is NOT a job that you take for the salary. You see things that ordinary citizens (thankfully) never have to see, and you are forced to make decisions in seconds that attorneys get hours or weeks to make.

All of that being said, where is the outrage for the weekly war zone that is Chicago, where innocent Black children are killed by stray gunfire from
Blacks shooting at other Blacks?
While working the Major Felony Unit (Homicide/Robbery) at my agency for all totaled 9 years, this was the type of cases in which we pulled out all the stops. Detectives, supervisors and uniform officers worked around the clock in an attempt to solve the crime. We were NEVER pressured to make an “arrest”. We worked our ass off to solve the crime and bring the true perp to justice. These crimes are a Big deal to us and we took the responsibility to solve them seriously.
To whomever reads this, Millions of Americans watch the Chicago weekly body count continue to unfold. The millions of viewers see no public outrage. Did the media just not film it? Where is the outrage? Marches, folks with signs, citizens throwing bottles, etc. Where are the unelected “Leaders” who fly in for the event/tragedy?
It only occurs when a cop ends up taking the life of a person who was engaging in High Risk behavior and facing and/or resisting arrest. Millions of American news viewers see the sad double standard.
Rest assured, you will see far fewer of these arrests that result in deaths. I fear, and citizen/victims will see, far less aggressive and passionate crime solving occur. The American Police Officer is no longer going to risk his livelihood and freedom. They can show up at the horrific scene and ask if anyone saw anything, collect evidence and go home. Y'all want “Officer Friendly”, you got em....be careful what you ask for.
Additionally, many officers are leaving large metro jurisdictions because of the lack of support from local politicians. I find it to be pretty damn hypocritical for "leaders" of metro cities to ask for defunding, or elimination, of police departments and then seek to hire private(armed) security for their own protection.
Also why does Police Officer David Dorn's life not matter to BLM? He was killed by some BLM rioters when he tried to defend a neighborhood from anarchy.

I don't hear anybody who supports BLM condemning those idiots who are blocking INTERSTATE HIGHWAYS and getting hit by cars all in the name of BLM. Also BLM (and Antifa) people are attacking innocent people driving in their cars but the media don't care about talking about these injuries and murders. These drivers are getting shot dead by these "protestors", many weeks after the original protests over a month ago. Seattle and Washington state have finally halted "protests" blocking interstate highways after two people were hit by a driver (1 killed). Also, of course after they try to shoot these drivers they are getting hit by these cars when the drivers step on the accelerator after getting attacked.

The CHAZ/CHOP idiots started their now-defunct utopia state because some driver was getting attacked and harassed and he shot back to defend himself. These street/interstate blocking incidents are very dangerous. There was a trucker who accidentally ran into a crowd of people who were literally blocking an interstate highway. Then they proceeded to beat the shit out of him just like Reginald Denny in 1992.

Thankfully the driver wasn't injured or charged due to all these idiots breaking all kinds of laws blocking the interstate. And thankfully nobody who was hit by him was seriously injured.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -says.html

RIP Officer Dorn:
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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 06 Jul 2020, 02:47

kensrs wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 00:25
artibus wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 19:57
kensrs wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 17:58
^To a certain degree, look at police annual budget and you will see how much OT pay is included. I know cops make 100k+ just due to OT. Dated a top attorney and theyd arrest people on BS chargees 30 minutes before shifts end so they can sit at their desk for hours writing up BS paperwork and get OT.

Police budgets are insane in this country in big part due to lobbyists. The budgets should be cut.

I think most would agree
Cut budget and wasteful spending
Train officers better (4 year required)
Dont pay high priced cops to do stupid tasks you can pay someone else to do
Get rid of the dont tell on your fellow officer rule, if someone breaks a rule and his partner dont report it, both are guilty for same thing or one is guilty and other is fired

One of the bigger problems is cops dont tell on other cops.
I love cops, friends with plenty but even they know shit aint right right now.
In MPLS the cop that was in the cop car just driving down the street spraying protestors (before anyone says anything they were on side or road holding signs doing nothing). Now city is sued due to that dumbass, he should immediately be fired, he isn't doing good, just costing tax payers money on a power trip.

LOTS of great cops, love 99% of them but even the good ones need to start weeding out the bad ones or it aint getting any better.
I stand by my earlier statement. 100%.
Sorry man....100K due to OT? You just lost me there. :roll: Ain't happening at any agency I'm aware of! Even Captains with 20 + years service aren't in that pay grade.
Yes, LOTS of great cops. 99%+ actually are great cops. The majority are also ex Military who didn't pursue that particular career for the salary either.

Again......where is the outrage over the FAR GREATER number of Back on Black homicide victims? I suppose either A) Those lives don't matter, or B) It doesn't fit a particular agenda to bring them up. Nevertheless, the numbers don't lie. An African American individual has a HELL of a lot more to fear, as far as being murdered, from another African American individual than by ANY police officer, whether the officer be White, Black, Asian, Latino.
George Floyd was murdered. Rayshard Brooks was passed out drunk in the drive-thru at a Wendys and impeding traffic. Those police officers didn't just show up for a burger and decide to shoot him...they were called and were attempting to do their jobs, including being cordial and polite to Mr Brooks, right up until he realized that he was going to be arrested and would be in violation of his parole (Child Endangerment). At that time, he starting fighting, overpowered one officer , took his Taser and fired it at him. That officer was struck and fell, suffering a concussion. Brooks then ran... but turned and fired again before he was fatally shot. The District Attorney had stated two weeks previously that a Taser is a deadly weapon...but that was when an officer deployed one while a couple in an auto were fighting and attempting to drag another officer during a riot.
When Officer Garrett Rolfe shot Mr Brooks, the same DA evidently forgot his earlier comments and charged the officer with murder, despite the fact that Mr Brooks fired twice with a "deadly weapon" striking one officer and causing injury, and before an investigation had been completed by the GBI.
Of course Black Lives Matter! One of those Black Lives helped me put away some shrimp and crab legs, along with frosty beverages and Jim Beam at my house last night. Until people start teaching their children that ALL LIVES MATTER and the Police are NOT your enemy things will stay as Effed Up as ever. My .02
Nothing but love from me to you but you are way off base
Maybe in your neck of woods but I know PLENTY of cops that make WAY OVER 100K, not including pension, and all the other BS.
Simple google search

https://www.npri.org/press/las-vegas-me ... -benefits/


OT pay is a HUGE pay raise. I am EXTREMELY close with multiple VERY POWERFUL attorneys and the amount of cops that write out bullshit tickets 30 minutes before a shift ends, knowing the charge wont hold is crazy. Why do they do this, OVERTIME, they sit at desk and get paid to do nonsense!!!

Also, Rayshard Brooks was shot in the back, sorry but by law that cop is FUCKED!!! Cant say a taser is a deadly weapon when a civilian uses it but not when a cop uses it, can't have it both ways.

Also, I know PLENTY of cops who off the record talk about corruption in the force and cops dont say shit about it because they don't want to be the one to piss off fellow officers. I agree majority of cops are amaing people, nothing but love, I buy them dinner all the time when they are behind me in line at drive thrus, its not that I dont like cops, I am just a realist who deals with court system and sees just how f'd up it is.

Can I ask what major metro area you live in and how far from said city are you. For example suburbs and 2 hours from a major city might have a different POV than someone living in the Bronx. Just asking so I can see if that is reason of different POV and I'll research your cops pay scale, it may shock you.
!. Can't speak for Las Vegas, but here in Metro Atlanta, corrections officers are separate entity from Police officers. Sheriffs Office controls Jail Services. Detention Officer (Jailer) is the first assigned duty for new hires at the Sheriffs Office, and are lowest salaried. Appears there is serious corruption going on in your neck of the woods for Corrections Officers to be getting that kind of money.
This is the salary structure of the metro agency represented in my comments: https://joinatlantapd.org/salary-and-benefits/
I AM a cop here and I can tell you that there are NOT many cops writing bullshit tickets, despite what your attorney friends have told you. That is BS.

2. Rayshard Brooks was shot in the back after A) attacking and overcoming an officer B) taking that officer's Taser and shooting him, resulting in that officer falling and sustaining a concussion C) turning and FIRING AGAIN while being pursued on foot. That cop is NOT "fucked" and will probably, and justifiably so, be found not guilty.
Fulton county District Attorney Paul Howard is the individual who ruled (two weeks prior) that a Taser is a "deadly weapon" (his words, not mine) when a police officer deployed a Taser while another officer was about to be dragged by a vehicle during a RIOT following the George Floyd shooting. Mr. Howard, in the midst of a highly contested election, chose to say the Taser was deadly when deployed by an officer, but chose to do a 180 when confronted with a convicted felon, in violation of his parole,who attacked and wounded one officer and attempted to do the same to another officer by utilizing the first officer's stolen Taser. TELL PAUL HOWARD HE CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

3. Metro Atlanta Police Department. (See above salary structure for comparison to your figures from Las Vegas Corrections Officers)
Respect you kensrs for what you do here at this hair fetish site and for what you did to help LTAH. Shocked? Yeah, admittedly a bit. Love for you too brother.
Last edited by artibus on 06 Jul 2020, 03:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 06 Jul 2020, 03:00

fastmandan88 wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 01:03
artibus wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 15:57
Everyone's life matters. That includes Blacks killed by other Blacks.
In my opinion, the killing of George Floyd was completely unjustified, and those officers should be prosecuted for murder.
Sadly, there have been several other officers, who were innocent of any such behavior, but who have been ambushed and murdered themselves...for nothing other than wearing their uniform and doing their job.
There are some bad police officers, but the percentage of bad is TINY compared to officers who are committed to doing the right thing....for all people, regardless of race. I would submit that there are more evil clergymen than evil officers.
Bottom line... it is an occupation in which you could lose your life at any given moment, and most likely you are working a second, or third, job to make ends meet. It is NOT a job that you take for the salary. You see things that ordinary citizens (thankfully) never have to see, and you are forced to make decisions in seconds that attorneys get hours or weeks to make.

All of that being said, where is the outrage for the weekly war zone that is Chicago, where innocent Black children are killed by stray gunfire from
Blacks shooting at other Blacks?
While working the Major Felony Unit (Homicide/Robbery) at my agency for all totaled 9 years, this was the type of cases in which we pulled out all the stops. Detectives, supervisors and uniform officers worked around the clock in an attempt to solve the crime. We were NEVER pressured to make an “arrest”. We worked our ass off to solve the crime and bring the true perp to justice. These crimes are a Big deal to us and we took the responsibility to solve them seriously.
To whomever reads this, Millions of Americans watch the Chicago weekly body count continue to unfold. The millions of viewers see no public outrage. Did the media just not film it? Where is the outrage? Marches, folks with signs, citizens throwing bottles, etc. Where are the unelected “Leaders” who fly in for the event/tragedy?
It only occurs when a cop ends up taking the life of a person who was engaging in High Risk behavior and facing and/or resisting arrest. Millions of American news viewers see the sad double standard.
Rest assured, you will see far fewer of these arrests that result in deaths. I fear, and citizen/victims will see, far less aggressive and passionate crime solving occur. The American Police Officer is no longer going to risk his livelihood and freedom. They can show up at the horrific scene and ask if anyone saw anything, collect evidence and go home. Y'all want “Officer Friendly”, you got em....be careful what you ask for.
Additionally, many officers are leaving large metro jurisdictions because of the lack of support from local politicians. I find it to be pretty damn hypocritical for "leaders" of metro cities to ask for defunding, or elimination, of police departments and then seek to hire private(armed) security for their own protection.
Also why does Police Officer David Dorn's life not matter to BLM? He was killed by some BLM rioters when he tried to defend a neighborhood from anarchy.

I don't hear anybody who supports BLM condemning those idiots who are blocking INTERSTATE HIGHWAYS and getting hit by cars all in the name of BLM. Also BLM (and Antifa) people are attacking innocent people driving in their cars but the media don't care about talking about these injuries and murders. These drivers are getting shot dead by these "protestors", many weeks after the original protests over a month ago. Seattle and Washington state have finally halted "protests" blocking interstate highways after two people were hit by a driver (1 killed). Also, of course after they try to shoot these drivers they are getting hit by these cars when the drivers step on the accelerator after getting attacked.

The CHAZ/CHOP idiots started their now-defunct utopia state because some driver was getting attacked and harassed and he shot back to defend himself. These street/interstate blocking incidents are very dangerous. There was a trucker who accidentally ran into a crowd of people who were literally blocking an interstate highway. Then they proceeded to beat the shit out of him just like Reginald Denny in 1992.

Thankfully the driver wasn't injured or charged due to all these idiots breaking all kinds of laws blocking the interstate. And thankfully nobody who was hit by him was seriously injured.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -says.html

RIP Officer Dorn:
Image
Officer Dorn was seventy seven years old. A grandfather and retired Police Chief who went into the midst of rioting and looting to try and restore calm and order. He was ambushed from behind and shot to death.
He did not succumb to his wounds immediately, but laid on his back bleeding and choking to death...as "protesters" danced and laughed at him, while filming his death. I saw the video, I know what I am talking about.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 06 Jul 2020, 07:22

artibus wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 02:47
kensrs wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 00:25
artibus wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 19:57


I stand by my earlier statement. 100%.
Sorry man....100K due to OT? You just lost me there. :roll: Ain't happening at any agency I'm aware of! Even Captains with 20 + years service aren't in that pay grade.
Yes, LOTS of great cops. 99%+ actually are great cops. The majority are also ex Military who didn't pursue that particular career for the salary either.

Again......where is the outrage over the FAR GREATER number of Back on Black homicide victims? I suppose either A) Those lives don't matter, or B) It doesn't fit a particular agenda to bring them up. Nevertheless, the numbers don't lie. An African American individual has a HELL of a lot more to fear, as far as being murdered, from another African American individual than by ANY police officer, whether the officer be White, Black, Asian, Latino.
George Floyd was murdered. Rayshard Brooks was passed out drunk in the drive-thru at a Wendys and impeding traffic. Those police officers didn't just show up for a burger and decide to shoot him...they were called and were attempting to do their jobs, including being cordial and polite to Mr Brooks, right up until he realized that he was going to be arrested and would be in violation of his parole (Child Endangerment). At that time, he starting fighting, overpowered one officer , took his Taser and fired it at him. That officer was struck and fell, suffering a concussion. Brooks then ran... but turned and fired again before he was fatally shot. The District Attorney had stated two weeks previously that a Taser is a deadly weapon...but that was when an officer deployed one while a couple in an auto were fighting and attempting to drag another officer during a riot.
When Officer Garrett Rolfe shot Mr Brooks, the same DA evidently forgot his earlier comments and charged the officer with murder, despite the fact that Mr Brooks fired twice with a "deadly weapon" striking one officer and causing injury, and before an investigation had been completed by the GBI.
Of course Black Lives Matter! One of those Black Lives helped me put away some shrimp and crab legs, along with frosty beverages and Jim Beam at my house last night. Until people start teaching their children that ALL LIVES MATTER and the Police are NOT your enemy things will stay as Effed Up as ever. My .02
Nothing but love from me to you but you are way off base
Maybe in your neck of woods but I know PLENTY of cops that make WAY OVER 100K, not including pension, and all the other BS.
Simple google search

https://www.npri.org/press/las-vegas-me ... -benefits/


OT pay is a HUGE pay raise. I am EXTREMELY close with multiple VERY POWERFUL attorneys and the amount of cops that write out bullshit tickets 30 minutes before a shift ends, knowing the charge wont hold is crazy. Why do they do this, OVERTIME, they sit at desk and get paid to do nonsense!!!

Also, Rayshard Brooks was shot in the back, sorry but by law that cop is FUCKED!!! Cant say a taser is a deadly weapon when a civilian uses it but not when a cop uses it, can't have it both ways.

Also, I know PLENTY of cops who off the record talk about corruption in the force and cops dont say shit about it because they don't want to be the one to piss off fellow officers. I agree majority of cops are amaing people, nothing but love, I buy them dinner all the time when they are behind me in line at drive thrus, its not that I dont like cops, I am just a realist who deals with court system and sees just how f'd up it is.

Can I ask what major metro area you live in and how far from said city are you. For example suburbs and 2 hours from a major city might have a different POV than someone living in the Bronx. Just asking so I can see if that is reason of different POV and I'll research your cops pay scale, it may shock you.
!. Can't speak for Las Vegas, but here in Metro Atlanta, corrections officers are separate entity from Police officers. Sheriffs Office controls Jail Services. Detention Officer (Jailer) is the first assigned duty for new hires at the Sheriffs Office, and are lowest salaried. Appears there is serious corruption going on in your neck of the woods for Corrections Officers to be getting that kind of money.
This is the salary structure of the metro agency represented in my comments: https://joinatlantapd.org/salary-and-benefits/
I AM a cop here and I can tell you that there are NOT many cops writing bullshit tickets, despite what your attorney friends have told you. That is BS.

2. Rayshard Brooks was shot in the back after A) attacking and overcoming an officer B) taking that officer's Taser and shooting him, resulting in that officer falling and sustaining a concussion C) turning and FIRING AGAIN while being pursued on foot. That cop is NOT "fucked" and will probably, and justifiably so, be found not guilty.
Fulton county District Attorney Paul Howard is the individual who ruled (two weeks prior) that a Taser is a "deadly weapon" (his words, not mine) when a police officer deployed a Taser while another officer was about to be dragged by a vehicle during a RIOT following the George Floyd shooting. Mr. Howard, in the midst of a highly contested election, chose to say the Taser was deadly when deployed by an officer, but chose to do a 180 when confronted with a convicted felon, in violation of his parole,who attacked and wounded one officer and attempted to do the same to another officer by utilizing the first officer's stolen Taser. TELL PAUL HOWARD HE CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

3. Metro Atlanta Police Department. (See above salary structure for comparison to your figures from Las Vegas Corrections Officers)
Respect you kensrs for what you do here at this hair fetish site and for what you did to help LTAH. Shocked? Yeah, admittedly a bit. Love for you too brother.
First sorry for all the shit you got going on down there and hope you are safe out there.

My outlook on this isn't going to be same as yours and that is fine, not really trying to argue and want to emphasize that. Appreciate what you do and hope you and your team stay safe and out of harms way. I love cops, played on a team which was mainly first responders including cops, I also see other side though as I am around a lot of politicians, judges, attorneys (defense and prosecuters), etc... plus lots of people I know are big into the BLM movement (not the idiots that are out there to cause problems), so the lense I see this through is different than yours.Really hope you dont ever take anything I say as an attack on you personally or the police, cant stress enough, nothing but love.

1. IDK Atlantas pay scale but looking it up it looks like you guys are one of the lower paid cities from looking at like 10-15 major cities. As far as cops, you can only give me POV from ATL which is obviously different from W. Coast, I know attorneys in multiple states that say this is common practice. Typically if a ticket doesnt hold water and its like why the hell you even write it, it's normally right at the end of the officers shift. Now that is only what I've been told in 3 stats by multiple attorneys (lesser degree cops) and in no way am I saying that is a nationwide thing, just something that is happening.

2. Agree to disagree on two and my knowledge is limited but after talking to multiple high level criminal def attorneys on it they said he will likely be found guilty and should be. IDK the law enough to argue with them on it.

3. You can look up cop salaries here as well, Vegas cops make bank. Cops in CA make bank. I just did a super quick google search to post that link but you can look it up to see what states pay the best and what states get more OT.

This article below proves my point which can give help you see how how the cities treat police departments differently which is why I say so many cops are making $100k+ here (not there) and get crazy good benefits and pensions. Which is why my viewpoint on spending less on OT and letting non police officers do some jobs may make more sense here than in other metro areas.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 112004904/

But it’s difficult to draw meaningful comparisons between cities because they use wildly different budgeting mechanisms. For example, the huge Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department budget, $656 million, is funded not only by the city of Las Vegas. Clark County also puts in a significant amount. And there’s an allocated property tax exclusively for funding cops.

Atlanta, Georgia

• Population, 2018: 498,073

• Police dept. funding as % of total budget, fiscal year 2020: 9.3% (7th smallest out of 50 largest cities)

• Total police budget for fiscal 2020: $205 million (16th smallest)

• Total city budget for fiscal 2020: $2.20 billion (20th largest)

• Law enforcement employees per 100K: 399 (22nd highest out of 634 cities with 65K +)

• Total law enforcement employees: 1,987 (1,535 officers, 452 civilian employees)

• Violent crimes reported per 100K in 2018: 769 (80th highest out of 634 cities of 65K +)

As city officials consider the budget for fiscal year 2021, Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms says she will not defund the police department. Instead, she said, she will divert money from the Department of Corrections to social services. The mayor intends to reduce the $19 million proposed corrections budget to $4 million, according to local news outlet WABE. The money cut will be redirected to the Office of Constituent Services.
---

Las Vegas, Nevada

• Population, 2018: 644,664

• Police dept. funding as % of total budget, fiscal year 2020: 44.9% (the largest out of 50 largest cities)

• Total police budget for fiscal 2021: $656 million (8th largest)

• Total city budget for fiscal 2021: $1.46 billion (17th smallest)

• Law enforcement employees per 100K: N/A

• Total law enforcement employees: N/A

• Violent crimes reported per 100K in 2018: No data

Confronting a potential $147 million budget shortfall over the next 16 months, Las Vegas recently cut its general fund budget for the next fiscal year by $124 million. To save money, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department laid off some part-time workers and its mounted patrol unit. The department's long-term goal of providing two officers per every 1,000 residents could be in jeopardy due to the budget crunch.

^^^I assume that last part is in big part due to the strip being dead or very few tourists. Don't need cops on horses walking on an empty strip.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 06 Jul 2020, 12:44

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/stat ... ries.html/

There is without a doubt a difference in pay from State to State, with your State, Nevada, ranking near the top in police officer salaries and mine ranking near the bottom. I have no idea what my house would sell for in Nevada, but I know I couldn't afford it.

Meanwhile, more innocent Blacks murdered this past weekend by other Blacks, including several children under the age of ten. Twenty wounded here in Atlanta, three dead. One beautiful little eight year old girl.

Not a peep from BLM..... "crickets"

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 06 Jul 2020, 19:37

artibus wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 12:44
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/stat ... ries.html/

There is without a doubt a difference in pay from State to State, with your State, Nevada, ranking near the top in police officer salaries and mine ranking near the bottom. I have no idea what my house would sell for in Nevada, but I know I couldn't afford it.

Meanwhile, more innocent Blacks murdered this past weekend by other Blacks, including several children under the age of ten. Twenty wounded here in Atlanta, three dead. One beautiful little eight year old girl.

Not a peep from BLM..... "crickets"
I was going to PM you but just post here, really want to emphasize nothing but love, we may see things differently as a result of our lives but I just want to emphasize I appreciate what you do and just want to make sure it's a healthy productive conversation and no hard feelings. In no way shape or form do I ever want to offend you. I'm the guy if I was in ATL, I'd be first to offer to buy you and your friends dinner and drinks. (actually might be there next month).

I love to learn and get POV from everyone involved in issues like this because they are complex issues. I'm one of those guys who may not know a lot about anything but knows a little about a lot. My best trait for work for example is being able to mesh it and hold conversations with anyone regardless of someones age, sex, job, income bracket, etc.... My ex use to comment about that all the time and I think in part it's a midwest thing, growing up in a small town in middle of nowhere you become friends with everyone and treat everyone well because it could later be a life or death thing if you brake down in middle of the winter on the road or have an emergency. I think in part that is where the MN Nice thing comes from. Reason I am saying that there is I'm the guy who would want to talk in depth to cops, attorneys, judges, BLM members, law makers, etc... so I can see the top from a differnt set of eyes than white male in his 30s, blonde hair, blue eyes, educated, etc.... I have no clue all the shit that you cops have to deal with and no clue what a kid in the hood deals with, nor what people in the legal system deal with so I just try to learn. Yes I voice my opinion but it's more so to see if I can get the other person to show me another way to look at things.

Sorry for long ass tangent on why I come off a certain way but emphasize nothing but love and offer for drinks still stands if I get to ATL. I am driving from NV to Denver to MN, to IN, to Wash DC, to FL, to TX and back to NV. So for a month I'll be all over the country. Just doing it for my mental health, being stuck at home during pandemic was hard on me, then the surgery, then worried about dads health, trying to figure out shit with ex (basically WTF we will do since we still love each other but cant be togther), etc.... Luckily I work on my computer so just going to travel to clear my ahead, have some alone time and focus on what I want moving fwd. Think it'll be healthy :)

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by artibus » 06 Jul 2020, 22:43

kensrs wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 19:37
artibus wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 12:44
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/stat ... ries.html/

There is without a doubt a difference in pay from State to State, with your State, Nevada, ranking near the top in police officer salaries and mine ranking near the bottom. I have no idea what my house would sell for in Nevada, but I know I couldn't afford it.

Meanwhile, more innocent Blacks murdered this past weekend by other Blacks, including several children under the age of ten. Twenty wounded here in Atlanta, three dead. One beautiful little eight year old girl.

Not a peep from BLM..... "crickets"
I was going to PM you but just post here, really want to emphasize nothing but love, we may see things differently as a result of our lives but I just want to emphasize I appreciate what you do and just want to make sure it's a healthy productive conversation and no hard feelings. In no way shape or form do I ever want to offend you. I'm the guy if I was in ATL, I'd be first to offer to buy you and your friends dinner and drinks. (actually might be there next month).

I love to learn and get POV from everyone involved in issues like this because they are complex issues. I'm one of those guys who may not know a lot about anything but knows a little about a lot. My best trait for work for example is being able to mesh it and hold conversations with anyone regardless of someones age, sex, job, income bracket, etc.... My ex use to comment about that all the time and I think in part it's a midwest thing, growing up in a small town in middle of nowhere you become friends with everyone and treat everyone well because it could later be a life or death thing if you brake down in middle of the winter on the road or have an emergency. I think in part that is where the MN Nice thing comes from. Reason I am saying that there is I'm the guy who would want to talk in depth to cops, attorneys, judges, BLM members, law makers, etc... so I can see the top from a differnt set of eyes than white male in his 30s, blonde hair, blue eyes, educated, etc.... I have no clue all the shit that you cops have to deal with and no clue what a kid in the hood deals with, nor what people in the legal system deal with so I just try to learn. Yes I voice my opinion but it's more so to see if I can get the other person to show me another way to look at things.

Sorry for long ass tangent on why I come off a certain way but emphasize nothing but love and offer for drinks still stands if I get to ATL. I am driving from NV to Denver to MN, to IN, to Wash DC, to FL, to TX and back to NV. So for a month I'll be all over the country. Just doing it for my mental health, being stuck at home during pandemic was hard on me, then the surgery, then worried about dads health, trying to figure out shit with ex (basically WTF we will do since we still love each other but cant be togther), etc.... Luckily I work on my computer so just going to travel to clear my ahead, have some alone time and focus on what I want moving fwd. Think it'll be healthy :)
Love and respect for you too my friend. Be assured, I feel the same.
Seeing things from different perspectives and having differing points of view is one of the things that make this country special, IMO. My own daughter leans a lot more liberal in her thinking, and I support her for it. We may not see everything eye to eye, but she knows I love her and there is no barrier that could ever come between us. The important thing is that she KNOWS that neither I, nor anyone who I associate with as a LEO, either socially or professionally, has one ounce of bigotry or underlying predetermined thinking that one race is inferior to another (racism by definition).
Hell yes, I get pissed off and frustrated by things that happen in Black communities....I'm pretty damn upset right now because a beautiful little eight year old girl was shot dead this weekend in front of her grandmother's house, and it will take a 10K reward just to get information from her own community to try and find the POS that shot her...and that's a fact.
The important thing, however, is that 99% of police officers also get frustrated and pissed off when a white person is the perp.
Tensions are high, without a doubt...I got a call from an old High School Football teammate Saturday and we talked for an hour. He just wanted me to know he loves me, and I love him too. Later Saturday, got together with an old patrol partner who also happens to be black. He knows I don't give a damn about him.......LOL. We still get together and eat (and drink) and I'd die for him to this day.
This job requires colorblindness, just the same as that old football team years ago, and also the military. People, especially Black people, should know that the vast majority of police officers love them and want to protect and serve and then go home to their families. That's the truth.

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Re: the Black Lives Matter thread

Post by kensrs » 07 Jul 2020, 08:29

^ <3 it
Nice to have a normal conversation and both side show respect, def needed more in this climate.
I went to ATL a few times and not being racist with this statement but the main thing I remember is just outside the city every block it seemed like, even in residential there was a church and a waffle house, lmfao... I was like these people love Jesus and waffles.
In ATL I've met some of the nicest people I've met, but also seen some really bad racist things in SW Georgia as I had family in Dawson for awhile which is a small town. This was years ago but broke my heart seeing some of that shit, really hope its changed and everyone can view each other as people and not care about color, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, job, etc.... because end of the day none of that shit really matters.

Really hope you are safe down there.

Can I ask what protocalls do cops have to take with covid when it comes to traffic stops and day to day work?
Luckily (knock on wood) I have been good at not being pulled over in like 10 years (I'm the asshole who drives 5 below the speed limit, I've gone so fast in cars for such a big portion of my life, I got nothing to prove) but just not sure what is expected of me to ensure the safety of the officer. My assumption is leave hands on wheel, wait for cop, then ask for permission to grab mask, and gloves (I keep them in my car for ATM/gas pumps) then hand papers and ID over with mask and glove on to protect the officer but no clue on your end what officers can do to stay safe out there while interacting with so many civilians on a day to day basis.

When the strip was shut down in Vegas (will happen again at this rate) it was dead for weeks but i'd ride bike on it, then everyon did and it was basically just a bike trail on the sidewalks and LV Blvd which was cool because I've never been able to just ride a bike up and down where there would normally be 100's of thousands if not a million people hanging out. When I did it early on there was almost no one and cops out numbers people 5-1, so I got a chance to talk to a few and had some good talks but that was before much was known so conversation was basically about how bored they are and how nice it is to talk to people (we kept distance and wore masks). Other than that haven't talked to many officers since softball out here is shut down and that is normally where I could sit and have in depth conversations on the topic, in Vegas that is my connection to cops but in other states I know more.

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