Coronavirus Thread

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kensrs
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 18 Mar 2020, 20:57

TB303 wrote:
18 Mar 2020, 15:42
Kensrs - your information about the early kit availability is incorrect. The early kits available were yielding a lot of false positives for Coronavirus and other similar viruses. The false positives would have been a real lightning rod for public fear. The tests were corrected about a week after the first centralized CDC developed kits showed errors. All of the early kits were sent to one central CDC lab because there are only a few labs nationwide with the same type of lab equipment, and they wanted to be consistent in analysis. Having multiple labs analyzing a new test adds noise to the findings.

At the same time Roche and Thermo Fisher were developing screening kits. An EUA (Emergency Authorization) was put in place to fast track the FDA approval process. They were approved last week. The Roche kit uses a widely used lab equipment to analyze results. Each lab can analyze 4000 tests a day (37 labs have this as far as I know) so 140k results daily from the newly approved Roche kit alone.

The development, testing and approvals of the screening kits was done prudently and quickly.

There is no positive in rushing out unproven or faulty kits.

Anyone banging on a delayed kit incompetence is doing so either 1) with incomplete knowledge, 2) to cause public fear, or 3) politicizing prudent measures that are in place for a reason.
Who knows what media you can believe:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p ... -who-test/
They say Kushner owns new company, wouldnt shock me either way

https://theweek.com/speedreads/903207/i ... rus-deaths
Says politics played a role

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... c-response
Breifly touches it there

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ostic-test
Now they deny they turned them down, which I get they never said hey US want these, but we should have asked, they were there and we said nah, we will do our own and delay the testing. IF tthe WHO tests were accurate, we should have got them.

Furthermore, even if WHO tests or any other tests were not accurate, why did it take so long to start developing new ones:

Here is your answer:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 5yeCvSF1Vc

Regardless of the tests the other fuck ups are just that, fuck ups, no excuses for that level of incompetence

Please post sources for your info, I have no problem admitting I am wrong if I am. I can just go by what I read and am told by sources within Bidens camp, Trumps camp and the pentagon and try to form a consensus to see whats actually happening since you cant really trust the news in 2020

To be clear, these are not the same articles I read in the past, I just googled it real quick trying to see where you got your info.

Thnx for sharing though :)

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by TB303 » 19 Mar 2020, 00:20

Hey Kensrs, I'm mostly going to primary sources, FDA, DHHS, CDC, CDC China, The Lancet (Medical Research Journal). I did look at an Atlantic article to get a number of causes for the 'delay'.

Timeline with sources below:

There are a number of factors tied into the delay in getting accurate tests out. They should all be noted.

Let's look at a quick timeline of the response.

1) January 22 - 580 cases of COVID-19 confirmed Globally
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
(impeachment trial in full swing)

2) January - Early lack of samples to create a test stalls labs around the world in late January.

'BioMérieux just released three versions of its coronavirus test this week, after beginning work on it on January 23. Miller says that with every viral outbreak, the company’s biggest problem by far is getting access to virus and patient specimens so that it can validate its tests. Even when working with nonauthoritarian countries, a combination of government processes, researcher reticence, complex shipping regulations, and patient-privacy concerns makes getting samples difficult for diagnostic companies like his.'

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ed/607954/

3) January 31st - Department of Health and Human Service issues notice that a public health emergency exists. (On January 31 there were @12,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19 globally.)

"As a result of confirmed cases of 2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV), on this date and after consultation with public health officials as necessary, I, Alex M. Azar II, Secretary of Health and Human Services, pursuant to the authority vested in me under section 319 of the Public Health Service Act, do hereby determine that a public health emergency exists and has existed since January 27, 2020, nationwide."

https://www.phe.gov/emergency/news/heal ... -nCoV.aspx

4) Feb 4th FDA verifies DHHS statement that a public health emergency exists

5) Early Feb - CDC had test kits early in February, and they proved to be faulty due to reagent issues yielding false positives for coronavirus and other viral strains

Results from early screening kits developed in China, South Korea and Japan are now in question as screening practices in those early infected areas also improves.

(Can't find original source, it's buried in links, but the article below confirms what I've posted before and above and the danger in rushing faulty kits)
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... -in-the-us

NEW: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-soug ... 1584545251

6) Feb 29 - As CDC screening test issues were corrected and a FDA EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) was modified to allow CLIA certified labs to submit request to begin manufacture of test kits.

7) March 12 - EUA amended to use test kits developed by Roche Molecular Systems, Inc.(RMS) while manufacture and distribution of FDA approved lab kits accelerates. The Roche kit requires widely used lab testing systems that can each process 4000 COVID-19 samples a day, 4x faster than current testing processes.

8) March 13 - TaqPath COVID-19 Combo Kit (Thermo Fisher Scientific, Inc.) approved for use.

https://www.fda.gov/media/136113/download

9) March 15- now - multiple independent lab testing kits approved for use.

General Timeline Source: https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedn ... horization

From the actions above I see an ever evolving response to a novel (new) virus outbreak that is rational and prudent. What would have happened if 1.5 million defective screening kits had been allowed to be used?

Based on my anecdotal experience in a CLIA certified lab, I don't claim to know everything about the whole process, but I do know there is a process in place for good reason.

A bunch of sources I have used- note most of these are not 'news outlets'. Go to primary sources. Clicking into links within the links below will yield a bunch of info not reported by journalists, and the Lancet articles I've read
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... 1/fulltext
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html
https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... on-reports
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... uests.html
http://www.nhc.gov.cn/xcs/yqtb/list_gzbd.shtml (Chinese CDC)
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-a ... inues-help
https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-informat ... -emergency
https://www.fda.gov/media/135010/download

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by TB303 » 19 Mar 2020, 00:51

Reply above
kensrs wrote:
18 Mar 2020, 20:57

Who knows what media you can believe:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p ... -who-test/
They say Kushner owns new company, wouldnt shock me either way

https://theweek.com/speedreads/903207/i ... rus-deaths
Says politics played a role

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... c-response
Breifly touches it there

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ostic-test
Now they deny they turned them down, which I get they never said hey US want these, but we should have asked, they were there and we said nah, we will do our own and delay the testing. IF tthe WHO tests were accurate, we should have got them.

Furthermore, even if WHO tests or any other tests were not accurate, why did it take so long to start developing new ones:

Here is your answer:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 5yeCvSF1Vc

Regardless of the tests the other fuck ups are just that, fuck ups, no excuses for that level of incompetence

Please post sources for your info, I have no problem admitting I am wrong if I am. I can just go by what I read and am told by sources within Bidens camp, Trumps camp and the pentagon and try to form a consensus to see whats actually happening since you cant really trust the news in 2020

To be clear, these are not the same articles I read in the past, I just googled it real quick trying to see where you got your info.

Thnx for sharing though :)

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 19 Mar 2020, 02:33

^CDC and FDA dropped the ball big time which is described here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testing-specialrep/special-report-how-korea-trounced-u-s-in-race-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW?fbclid=IwAR12hIQgTt_uJVgiuN2Y5UeEYgDKv8hFWVbBlnGdMX0ISSYua5yeCvSF1Vc

CDC is ran by Robert Redfield who was appointed by Trump and was/is a controversial pick.

Here he is with Porter where she got him to approve free testing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsXBqa3l5os

FDA is ran by Stephen Hahn, M.D appointed by Trump

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 19 Mar 2020, 02:34

How long do you guys think this will last for?

China CLAIMS to have it under control and only getting 10-15 new cases a day, do you believe them?

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by bangs-cutter » 19 Mar 2020, 05:42

kensrs wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 02:34
How long do you guys think this will last for?

China CLAIMS to have it under control and only getting 10-15 new cases a day, do you believe them?
I would take the numbers with a grain of salt.

But it does seem like they are on the "tail end" of the epidemic curve, with numbers decreasing.

The field hospitals they hastily built are now no longer needed. Children have started going back to school.

It seems like a good sign that the peak of the wave has passed.

I just don't believe the ridiculously low numbers of new cases.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair » 19 Mar 2020, 05:51

kensrs wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 02:33
^CDC and FDA dropped the ball big time which is described here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testing-specialrep/special-report-how-korea-trounced-u-s-in-race-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW?fbclid=IwAR12hIQgTt_uJVgiuN2Y5UeEYgDKv8hFWVbBlnGdMX0ISSYua5yeCvSF1Vc

CDC is ran by Robert Redfield who was appointed by Trump and was/is a controversial pick.

Here he is with Porter where she got him to approve free testing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsXBqa3l5os

FDA is ran by Stephen Hahn, M.D appointed by Trump
Not sure what you’re trying to do here, but it sounds an awful lot like Trump bashing to me. Why don’t you just come right out and tell us all whom we should vote for??

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 19 Mar 2020, 07:05

~svenhair wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 05:51
kensrs wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 02:33
^CDC and FDA dropped the ball big time which is described here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testing-specialrep/special-report-how-korea-trounced-u-s-in-race-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW?fbclid=IwAR12hIQgTt_uJVgiuN2Y5UeEYgDKv8hFWVbBlnGdMX0ISSYua5yeCvSF1Vc

CDC is ran by Robert Redfield who was appointed by Trump and was/is a controversial pick.

Here he is with Porter where she got him to approve free testing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsXBqa3l5os

FDA is ran by Stephen Hahn, M.D appointed by Trump
Not sure what you’re trying to do here, but it sounds an awful lot like Trump bashing to me. Why don’t you just come right out and tell us all whom we should vote for??
Lets go over it.

"^CDC and FDA dropped the ball big time which is described here:"
If you disagree with it, please say how and why.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-testing-specialrep/special-report-how-korea-trounced-u-s-in-race-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW?fbclid=IwAR12hIQgTt_uJVgiuN2Y5UeEYgDKv8hFWVbBlnGdMX0ISSYua5yeCvSF1Vc

"CDC is ran by Robert Redfield who was appointed by Trump and was/is a controversial pick.'
FACT, that is literally a fact.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/03/trumps-cdc-director-has-a-history-of-controversial-opinions-on-controlling-viruses/

https://www.foxnews.com/us/who-is-dr-robert-redfield

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/trumps-pick-for-cdc-director-is-experienced-but-controversial/556202/

Video was in fact footage from a meeting so once again FACT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsXBqa3l5os

"FDA is ran by Stephen Hahn, M.D appointed by Trump"
FACT

https://www.tmc.edu/news/2019/11/md-andersons-stephen-hahn-m-d-nominated-by-president-trump-to-lead-the-fda/

So three of the four were a fact and other might as well be because if they didn't we'd have enough tests to test our population.
If you deem this post to be attacking Trump that is on you, I just pointed out facts and you can take them how you want.
I wouldnt give two shits who was president, if they f'd up, I'd call them out on it.
Im voting for Jill Stein, both main parties suck if you ask me but vote for whoever you like, I just ask you vote :)

Also so you dont think I am just bashing one side, Kamala Harris is out of her damn mind if she thinks $250 per person is somehow going to solve peoples problems. If she was president and offered that, it would result in rioting and crime which could cause more lives then the damn pandemic in the USA.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 19 Mar 2020, 07:08

bangs-cutter wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 05:42
kensrs wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 02:34
How long do you guys think this will last for?

China CLAIMS to have it under control and only getting 10-15 new cases a day, do you believe them?
I would take the numbers with a grain of salt.

But it does seem like they are on the "tail end" of the epidemic curve, with numbers decreasing.

The field hospitals they hastily built are now no longer needed. Children have started going back to school.

It seems like a good sign that the peak of the wave has passed.

I just don't believe the ridiculously low numbers of new cases.
Yeah that is my feeling also, I think China is just covering up what is really going on. Doesn't make sense for them to have such small numbers.
Good news is odds are a lot more people have it than are being reported and if that is the case, then the death % is much lower than is being reported.
Scary thing is i've seen a few reports of people getting it more than once, IDK if thats been verified though.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair » 19 Mar 2020, 12:42

Fact. The Chinese covered up and provided propaganda to the world while this thing got out of control.
Fact. You know what? Never mind... it’s not worth it because you’re blind to seeing anything else other than how your side would have so obviously done better to manage this crisis. As you said, that is on you.
Peace
Last edited by ~svenhair on 19 Mar 2020, 19:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimB » 19 Mar 2020, 16:30

WHAT GETS ME NOW .....
I HEAR ON THE NEWS THAT WHEN A CURE FOR THIS VIRUS IS FOUND .....
WHEN YOU GET THE TREATMENT, SHOT, YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE WILL COVER IT .....
I REMEMBER BACK IN THE 1950s AND THE POLIO VIRUS ......
WHEN THE SHOTS WERE GIVEN .....
ALL THE SHOTS ( 3-IN ALL ) WERE ""FREE"" AND SCHOOLS WERE LOCATIONS WHERE THEY WERE GIVEN .....
YOU JUST GOT IN LINE, ROLLED UP YOUR SLEEVES AND GOT THE SHOT AND ON YOUR WAY .....
EVEN IF YOU WENT TO A HOSPITAL, YOUR DOCTOR .....
THE SHOTS ( 3-SHOTS ) WERE FREE .....
NOTHING BUT BIG MONEY COMPANIES AT WORK .....
A woman looks great with short hair or a shaved head .....

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by klaatu48 » 19 Mar 2020, 17:02

Yup -- Jonas Salk could have patented the polio vaccine and minted money for his family for generations, but he let it go for free.

Hard to believe any pharmaceutical company would do that today.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Elina » 19 Mar 2020, 17:12

And don’t even get me started on anti-vaxxers. :roll:

Btw, most of the time when people say “fact”, what they actually mean is “opinion”. If you want to show that something is widely and reasonably considered to be true by a majority consensus of professionals, just provide a link to the evidence base.

In my opinion, the biggest challenge to the human race is a the lack of willingness (or ability) of many to engage in critical thinking.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 19 Mar 2020, 20:23

Elina wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 17:12
And don’t even get me started on anti-vaxxers. :roll:

Btw, most of the time when people say “fact”, what they actually mean is “opinion”. If you want to show that something is widely and reasonably considered to be true by a majority consensus of professionals, just provide a link to the evidence base.

In my opinion, the biggest challenge to the human race is a the lack of willingness (or ability) of many to engage in critical thinking.
done, but most of those were just a google search away to see who appointed them. :)

Anti-vaxxers are going to be stuck between a rock and hard place if the only way to be done with this thing is a vaccine.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs » 19 Mar 2020, 20:31

~svenhair wrote:
19 Mar 2020, 12:42
Fact. The Chinese covered up and provided propaganda to the world while this thing got out of control.
Fact. You know what? Never mind... it’s not worth it because you’re blind to seeing anything else other than how your side would have so obviously done better to manage this crisis. As you said, that is on you.
Peace
First, sorry I upset you.
Second, I agree China covered up the severity of it early on, so we are on the same page.

To the rest, if you want to change my view, all you got to do is provide links and i'll read them but it's pretty hard to argue the missteps I pointed out earlier by this admin. I form my opinions based on what I read, see and am told by people who know far more than us on the inside. I will always read something though if you post it and it's relevant :D

Opinion below:
I will also bash the left as both sides are dropping the ball right now in this thing, it's embarrassing as both sides care more about their political donors than they do us actual people.

As far as sides, I flat out said who I am voting for Jill Stein. Neither of the other sides have done enough to get my vote and as a result I hate both sides so I'll vote door #3 :)

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair » 20 Mar 2020, 00:54

Ok, you convinced me, I’m voting for Jill too, can we be done now? 😒

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by artibus » 20 Mar 2020, 02:09

Thoughts and prayers for tat00x and all the other people in Italy.
Stay safe and healthy my friend.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by fastmandan88 » 20 Mar 2020, 04:49

Thank you svenhair and TB303. Amazingly on non-headshave topics we can come to an agreement sometimes.

And to kensrs, I completely agree that everybody screwed up going back to the 1980s when we started sucking up to China and sent all our factories over there. Look how screwed we are after China started hoarding everything. Fucking Jim Beam and Jack Daniel's are now being drafted, WWII-style, to make HAND SANITIZER while GMC, Ford, and Tesla are now drafted to make emergency ventilators!!! Boeing and American Airlines are going to be drafted to make toilet paper soon. I'm not worried about food production because the farmers make so much food that they are actually paid by the government to burn and destroy half of their surplus crops every year. I'm worried because in 2 or 3 months the raw materials from China to make the plastics and tin cans packing material for American food will no longer be sent here by China and we will no longer have canned goods. However if China starts banning the export to the USA of cans and plastics for storage and also bans pharmaceuticals to the USA the USA will simply starve China to death because China will have NO FOOD very soon (the armyworm pest, pig fever, and this coronavirus disaster is killing food production in China right now).

Jill Stein is the only one who did nothing wrong, haha.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair » 20 Mar 2020, 05:35

One thing I do know and that’s that Nancy Pelosi knows nothing about manufacturing. Bitch if you want fast production of ventilators, take an old expired patent and set of blueprints, upload it to the open source makers hobby manufactures and offer a prize to whomever can simplify a new design fit 3D printed parts and desk top CNC. Release those files into the open source community and appoint a technical counsel from private industry to provide over site for 4/5 contract manufacturers who can receive and inspect incoming parts for assembly and test.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by bangs-cutter » 20 Mar 2020, 05:47

Btw, one of the side effects of this pandemic, is how it brings out the ugly racist side of some people. People of Asian ethnic (even those who are not from China) get verbally abused with racist remarks for "causing" the outbreak. It ranges from passive avoidance of Asian people and Asian businesses, to outright aggressive verbal or sometimes physical abuse.
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