Coronavirus Thread

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SuperStylist
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by SuperStylist »

Jackie Treehorn wrote:
02 Jan 2021, 22:50
Thanks for that article but I'm going to respectfully disagree. Let me preface this by saying again that I had Covid, my wife had Covid and my 83 year old mother had Covid. It is not a joke. I am over 50 and it was no walk in the park. Do I wear a mask in public? Yes. Where I live It's the law and I'll follow the law. At this stage it is also a matter of public courtesy. That said, I think it is a wasted effort. In the article you linked what you have is one selective month pulled out and I'm not sure how the data there fits in with what they are saying. There is at this point no direct correlation between wearing masks and a reduced spreading or vice-versa. I have read any number of articles where doctors or nurses make bold declarative statements like, “You’re less likely to get Covid-19 if you’re wearing a mask.” That's fine but please back that statement up with data. As of yet I have seen not one conclusive report.

There are any number of other factors that cannot be accounted for. One of these is population density. I'll use California and Florida as examples. California and Florida have policies that are almost diametrically opposed yet we see virtually the same spread. California has at this stage a larger number of cases. (Depending on the sample time size this may be regarded as statistically insignificant) What we can look at though is total cases and total deaths. If we look at Florida the number of total deaths is about 40% higher than California. On the surface we could surmise that California's policy is therefore the better one. If we however look at the population density we see that interestingly enough the population density in Florida is 40% higher than California. Now lets take into account age. Based on median age of citizens Florida is the 5th oldest state in the US (Considering the number of retirees I'm surprised its not number 1 or 2 actually). California comes in at around 45th. One of the few things we do know is that this illness is far deadlier to old people than young people. Based on the population age and density as well as their policy the on-the-face assumption would be that people in Florida should be dropping like flies. The fact is that we are looking at two states with completely different policies and.. it seems to make no difference.

Two things stick out to me and that is that 1.) I don't think we really know how this virus is being transmitted and I think that bothers a great number of health care officials. I believe the band-aid on that fear is "wear a mask". 2.) The most disappointing thing in the US at least is that we have created an incentive to fudge the number of deaths. It's a cold hard fact that a great number of people are being labeled as Covid deaths that did not die of Covid. Hospitals are cashing in more money because of this (This is not a conspiracy theory. It's just plain tax money fudging and it happens all the time.) A good friend of mine just lost his mother. She was 85 years old and had Stage 4 (lung) cancer. She happened to test positive in the hospital. Cause of death? Covid-19. What a farce. What we have caused by this is that we are spoiling a key metric in trying to make head or tails of this virus.

Just my two cents. That and about 498 more cents and you can get a cup of coffee somewhere.
I don’t disagree with you. I think wearing a mask for the benefit of others is being a responsible citizen but it’s all about the situation. Should everyone wear a mask around others. Yes, of course. Will that mask protect you? Maybe.

I think you’re right about different strategies creating similar outcomes. I think it comes back to what we were talking about on the other thread, people are going to do what they want regardless of political theater.

Let’s hope the vaccines are A) effective and B) our governments don’t totally fudge the rollout. Anyone looking for a silver bullet, there isn’t one.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair »

One thing is for certain, California will be owning a lot more private property before this is over. Here’s the entire plan as just signed into law by Newsom. The summary: as expected, rich get richer, poor get poorer and the wealthy white statists just get grabbier and seize more power. No wonder the recallgavin2020 website is being hidden by Google search today.

https://youtu.be/NHHiaOKb518
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by SuperStylist »

~svenhair wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 23:58
One thing is for certain, California will be owning a lot more private property before this is over. Here’s the entire plan as just signed into law by Newsom. The summary: as expected, rich get richer, poor get poorer and the wealthy white statists just get grabbier and seize more power. No wonder the recallgavin2020 website is being hidden by Google search today.

https://youtu.be/NHHiaOKb518
This source sounds wacky, but Newsom does have a popularity problem and is being actively persuaded to step down. I can’t see how he would win another election.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair »

I have it, my son has it and now my 89 year old mom has it.
migraines, 102 fever, cough, congestion and fatigue. Yes, I wore my mask religiously, rarely went anywhere. If I can get it, anyone can. Don’t know what else I could have done different, only made one trip to Costco the week before symptoms. I wiped down my cart and wore a mask. I’m over 50 and am on day four of infection. Fever has finally abated but just changing bed linens feels like a marathon now.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs »

~svenhair wrote:
06 Jan 2021, 17:43
I have it, my son has it and now my 89 year old mom has it.
migraines, 102 fever, cough, congestion and fatigue. Yes, I wore my mask religiously, rarely went anywhere. If I can get it, anyone can. Don’t know what else I could have done different, only made one trip to Costco the week before symptoms. I wiped down my cart and wore a mask. I’m over 50 and am on day four of infection. Fever has finally abated but just changing bed linens feels like a marathon now.
Sounds similar to what I have. Not sure where you live but one thing I found that really helped was getting an IV, we had an IV service come out to the house and give us two bags of IVs each. Had to pay out of pocket (didnt even try to get insurance to pay) but holy crap did it make a difference and sped up recovery a bunch, just re-hydrated us and got us a bunch of vitamins in our system which we needed.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs »

^The article talks about number of people infected based on population.

Go here:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Click, total cases 1m pop

The states at top are still the ones who don't enforce masks, I don't know how you can argue that masks dont help.
Even if you say they don't help directly, they clearly change peoples behavior for the better and cause people to be more aware of their surroundings and act accordingly (wash hands, social distance, not touch face, etc...)

I get your point but look at the states that don't have a mask mandate ,they are almost all at the top of the list. It's not like they are spread out, they are at the top.

Either way, hope people wear masks, social distance, wash hands, dont touch face, etc.... because this country is a joke when it comes to handling this virus.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

kensrs wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 00:17
^I don't know how you can argue that masks dont help.
Well this is a quote from the latest report from the WHO.

“At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19”.

That's a fairly clear statement. As I said previously, do I wear a mask in public? Yes. (In fact I'm wearing one right now.) Do I think it helps? Not really. A mask has no effect directly or indirectly as to whether a mask wearer washes hands or touches their face. In the last 15 minutes I've seen several people fiddling with their masks and by way of that touching their faces.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by crank »

kensrs wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 00:17
....because this country is a joke when it comes to handling this virus.
I suspect differences in reporting cases has much to do with how it appears the US is handling COVID compared to other nations on the planet.

This next question tends to make people angry but here goes... Does anyone actually believe China has had fewer than 100,000 cases since the beginning? Really? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/china/

The question seems to make people angry because in my experience any question like this is interpreted as a suggestion that COVID is a hoax or a conspiracy. Resist that impulse... It is a legitimate question I believe is worth some scrutiny. Fewer than 100,000 cases?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by klaatu48 »

crank wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 20:20
It is a legitimate question I believe is worth some scrutiny. Fewer than 100,000 cases?
I'm on the fence about it.

Do I think a country can control the virus? Yes, just look at New Zealand.
Do I think China would lie about the numbers to make themselves look better? Also yes.

Am I willing to make the call about which one is the case here? No, because I don't have that expertise.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by crank »

Jackie Treehorn wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 18:25
kensrs wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 00:17
^I don't know how you can argue that masks dont help.
A mask has no effect directly or indirectly as to whether a mask wearer washes hands or touches their face. In the last 15 minutes I've seen several people fiddling with their masks and by way of that touching their faces.
Here is why the virus is still spreading. For some people, a mask will make no difference at all... :?
5288fb4897e2b7f343b1b8d709f0c164.jpg
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Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

That's hot.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by mco666 »

Sorry for my bad English, but I can't think straight at the moment. I don't know around the world, but here in Brazil it seems that somehow hospitals profit from the misfortunes of others. My mother, who is taking care of herself because she is in the risk group, didn’t travel or anything and after raining, she got sick, tired, which is one of the symptoms, so I took her to the hospital and they just took her to the emergency room and they didn't say anything to me. After that, I didn't see her anymore, I just talked to her through messages and she said she had an x-ray and that they said the problem is in the lung and she was transferred to the hospital that takes care of covid and that until now she haven't been tested for covid and the doctors want leave her hospitalized. And now i'm scared if it is something else she is at risk of really becoming infected with the disease and making something much worse
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs »

crank wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 20:20
kensrs wrote:
07 Jan 2021, 00:17
....because this country is a joke when it comes to handling this virus.
I suspect differences in reporting cases has much to do with how it appears the US is handling COVID compared to other nations on the planet.

This next question tends to make people angry but here goes... Does anyone actually believe China has had fewer than 100,000 cases since the beginning? Really? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/china/

The question seems to make people angry because in my experience any question like this is interpreted as a suggestion that COVID is a hoax or a conspiracy. Resist that impulse... It is a legitimate question I believe is worth some scrutiny. Fewer than 100,000 cases?
you are obsessed with china, lol
OK, lets not talk cases, lets talk deaths, the country is still a joke
When 1/2 the country doesnt think its real, or dont practice social distancing, don't wear masks, etc... the country is going to be in trouble.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by kensrs »

mco666 wrote:
08 Jan 2021, 00:15
Sorry for my bad English, but I can't think straight at the moment. I don't know around the world, but here in Brazil it seems that somehow hospitals profit from the misfortunes of others. My mother, who is taking care of herself because she is in the risk group, didn’t travel or anything and after raining, she got sick, tired, which is one of the symptoms, so I took her to the hospital and they just took her to the emergency room and they didn't say anything to me. After that, I didn't see her anymore, I just talked to her through messages and she said she had an x-ray and that they said the problem is in the lung and she was transferred to the hospital that takes care of covid and that until now she haven't been tested for covid and the doctors want leave her hospitalized. And now i'm scared if it is something else she is at risk of really becoming infected with the disease and making something much worse
sorry man, hope she is released soon and OK
My biggest fear is my parents catching it
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Alpha111 »

For those that think masks have no effect: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817

Someone has already done the research for you. However, this is written at a pretty high reading level so if you need crayons or pop up pictures added, just let me know.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

Alpha111 wrote:
08 Jan 2021, 02:39
For those that think masks have no effect: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817

Someone has already done the research for you. However, this is written at a pretty high reading level so if you need crayons or pop up pictures added, just let me know.
Um.. you did read the results and conclusion, right? The study is basically inconclusive.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by ~svenhair »

I sat through an excruciating two day forum last month from the American Filter Association. I’ll save you the details and cut to the chase. Mask up, You’re still probably not safe.

Paper (celulose) disposable filters outperform nearly all one layer and two layer fabric masks.
Fabric masks (cotton) harbor moisture and are a breeding ground for yuck.
Coffee filters fail to stop anything🤪
Neck gaiters of any kind... especially spandex = useless🤒
Bandanas same🤒
Best performing: 3M or Honeywell non-woven, spun bound poly, N95, fit tested, (very important) no valve. (Shaved face, no whiskers)
The bad news? This is the most counterfeited filter to date. Lots of cheap crap from China falsely labeled with N-95 / NIOSH certs. One estimate... 90% N95’s are counterfeit products all with various levels of inconsistency. Amazon will sell anything. Means nothing.

Tons more data as they tested, breathing, singing, shouting, coughing. Fascinating

My takeaway?
1.)Seal is everything
2.) Credible branding and certs
3.) Its the Wild West of masks right now
4.) 6 foot distancing was a compromise... data supports 15 feet as the safe zone. But... they knew this would be met with pushback.

https://www.afssociety.org/index.php?op ... conference
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Alpha111 »

Jackie Treehorn wrote:
08 Jan 2021, 07:11
Alpha111 wrote:
08 Jan 2021, 02:39
For those that think masks have no effect: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M20-6817

Someone has already done the research for you. However, this is written at a pretty high reading level so if you need crayons or pop up pictures added, just let me know.
Um.. you did read the results and conclusion, right? The study is basically inconclusive.
Did you cherry pick 2 sentences out of the results? It says that masks did not reduce infection rates by 50%. Correct. The whole study was sponsored by the Danish Government looking at if there was a *significant* change in cases through masks alone with the threshold being 50%. If you read the results section or the actual paper, it reduced it by up to 46% so they can't say it has a *significant* effect. Spoiler: Denmark still mandated masks and has some of the lowest case numbers. It also states that these numbers are combined with a degree of social distancing which isn't happening in the US at this point. It says that masks *alone* are not enough.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33273115/ 47% reduction in cases
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7730488/ observational study relating to the wearing masks and reduction of transmission rates
https://msphere.asm.org/content/5/5/e00637-20 Masks provide protection and a reduction in risk although they are not 100% perfect
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0237691 Mask and Social Distancing = less cases
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2720300117 Mask and Social Distancing = less cases, even if its just a t shirt over your face
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... nce_Review masks are cheap and lower transmission rates
https://www.pnas.org/content/117/36/21851.short Mandatory mask wearing reduces cases better than voluntary mask wearing
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/ ... 2020.00818 US states that made people wear masks had less cases

Edit: Sorry if I come across a bit rude, just getting tired of people not doing the simplest shit to end this pandemic. And I am tired of places like Germany where I live doing the right thing for it not to matter because none of our neighbors are doing the right thing.
Last edited by Alpha111 on 08 Jan 2021, 12:23, edited 3 times in total.
Alpha111
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by Alpha111 »

~svenhair wrote:
08 Jan 2021, 07:46
I sat through an excruciating two day forum last month from the American Filter Association. I’ll save you the details and cut to the chase. Mask up, You’re still probably not safe.

Paper (celulose) disposable filters outperform nearly all one layer and two layer fabric masks.
Fabric masks (cotton) harbor moisture and are a breeding ground for yuck.
Coffee filters fail to stop anything🤪
Neck gaiters of any kind... especially spandex = useless🤒
Bandanas same🤒
Best performing: 3M or Honeywell non-woven, spun bound poly, N95, fit tested, (very important) no valve. (Shaved face, no whiskers)
The bad news? This is the most counterfeited filter to date. Lots of cheap crap from China falsely labeled with N-95 / NIOSH certs. One estimate... 90% N95’s are counterfeit products all with various levels of inconsistency. Amazon will sell anything. Means nothing.

Tons more data as they tested, breathing, singing, shouting, coughing. Fascinating

My takeaway?
1.)Seal is everything
2.) Credible branding and certs
3.) Its the Wild West of masks right now
4.) 6 foot distancing was a compromise... data supports 15 feet as the safe zone. But... they knew this would be met with pushback.

https://www.afssociety.org/index.php?op ... conference
Yeah, the cotton masks can get pretty gunked up really quick so they recommend washing them regularly and rotating the masks you wear.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread

Post by scissortooth »

@Alpha111

I'm sort of with you in terms of arguments, but I don't think you need to be that hostile. I know some people can be really dumb about this Covid thing but most guys here - Jackie too - are just having doubts to the degree that I think is still reasonable, even if I disagree with them. Also, Jackie said clearly that in spite of his doubts he still follows the rules. Let's not get too much blood in the head.
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